100TB Burst rig questions



  • Hi guys, been on the forums for about a week and decided to finally join. I have a couple of questions. I am interested in mining Burstcoin but not really sure about a few things. If I want to mine, what are the requirements exactly?

    I am hearing you need a very good CPU and GPU, plus a lot of ram, and then I'm also hearing that you don't? What type of PSU would I need to run, say, a 20 - 100TB HDD rig?

    Can I combine external and internal hard drives? How many can I theoretically run? Let's say I wanted to eventually run 1 petabyte or even 10 petabyte, what would that involve?

    Also, is mining profitable right now? Because, I was watching a video of someone with a 50TB rig, only making $50-60 a month, but when I punched in 50TB on a Burst mining calculator, it showed like $400 per month.

    Anyways, thank you for reading and sorry for all the questions.



  • @Dtrade16, hi there. Kinda surprised your thread sat for so many days without some feedback. I started mining in February, and by April had a 50TB rig. From April to May I made around 50,000 coins. Between May and June, I've mined about 42,000 coins. That was with a larger rig (87.9 TB), but there was a big swelling in network capacity and the difficulty levels shot way up. Also, there is a certain randomness to Burst mining. Some days I'll make next to nothing, then the next day I might forge three blocks and get 600 to 900 coins in historical pool earnings as well. I don't have enough months under my belt to know how it varies strictly due to this randomness.

    There are a lot of variables that go into mining, but here are my thoughts, for what they are worth. You can CPU mine and plot, but GPU mining and plotting should be quicker, and quicker is better. I have one machine with an RX-480 GPU and it is OK, but the other has a GTX-1060 and it works a lot better for me (although some say the NVIDIA cards can be difficult). But the 480 was a lot cheaper and still works well. My advice would be be to use a decent GPU, but one your budget can afford.

    GPU plotting is fast enough that it outpaces the speed at which data can be written to a drive. You can actually have the plotter calculate for several drives at once and write to the drives in parallel.The GPU needs an allotment of RAM for each drive and more RAM for larger stagger sizes as well. For that reason I'd say get all the RAM you can, without getting silly. I have 16GB in my miner and am expanding my plotting rig from 10GB to 16GB or perhaps a bit more.

    Yes, you can mix internal and external drives. I filled up my miner with five x 6TB SATA III, 7200 RPM internals. Everything else is external, all on USB 3.0 connections. USB 2.0 or less is too slow: don't use it!

    The externals can cost less, so you can get more plotted space for less money. Mine are all Seagate 5Tb or 8TB externals, 5400 RPM, and are a kind of drive known as SMR (Shingled Magnetic Recording). This makes the drives cheaper, but VERY slow to plot. Mining speed is fine. I'm not independently wealthy, so cheap, slow plotting drives work for me. I actually plot to faster internal drives and then copy the finished plot files to the SMR drives. These long, continuous writes are much faster than the intermittent plotting writes when it comes to SMR drives.

    Your miner will scan faster with optimized plots. You can plot normal plots and then optimize them or you can directly create optimized plots. I do the latter. I fill my drives as full as I can with plot files and I use multiple files per drive so that the plot files are between 2 to 3 TB each. There is no speed penalty for multiple files versus one large file. I've had the plotting software fail on larger plots, but never on files around 2TB.

    A given USB controller only has so much bandwidth, and all of the drives plugged into it share that bandwidth. The mining software will access the drives in parallel, so things slow down as you add more and more drives. I've got too many on one card right now. When I had four externals, I was reading all my drives in about 15 seconds. With nine, it now takes 20 to 30 seconds. I'm plotting three more, so I'm sure it will just plain crawl with twelve drives.

    The solution is to divide the drives up between multiple USB controllers. I'd like to see no more than four drives per controller. There are PCIEx1 cards that will give you one extra USB controller. There is at least one PCIEx4 card out there with four separate controllers. The key is having the right motherboard with the right expansion slots. Speaking of this, you can also get expansion cards that will give you extra SATA/SAS ports so you can add extra internal drives too. Of course you need enough drive bays and a PSU that can supply the needed power. And, again, you need the right motherboard expansion ports.

    You can also use multiple PCs to mine; all of them looking at one wallet server running on one machine. I haven't done this yet, but it is my next step since my miner is pretty well out of expansion options. There are how-to's out there for implementing this.

    That's it for me right now. I'm crazy tired. I'm afraid to even proof-read what I wrote. Sorry if it rambles on! I'm sure others can provide you more detailed information. The main thing is to dive in and get started. Everything can be upgraded down the road, but even a modest rig can get you earning some coins. Good luck! I'm off to bed...



  • @Dtrade16 welcome to burst.. like @Evo said surprised your comment went un answered so long, most things are answered relatively quick .. Evo also did a pretty good job giving you all the information so I will only give you an example.

    I am 4-5 months new to burst.
    started with 2tb and one machine.now this machine is plotting over 40tb with a mix of internals and externals (mostly externals)
    I also started another machine with 8 x 8tb wd externals plotted to 59TB

    I have never once used my GPU as the CPU is what drew me to this coin.

    My bigger machine can do from 300 - 3500 burst a day my smaller machine will do 150-2500 burst a day ... i know the the swings are very big due to spiking and unstable network difficulty..

    the calculator is a great way to determine long results. as you will see swings and will not produce what you think some days and way better others..

    I would start with the 20tb and see how you do .. as long as your read speeds are under 60 seconds you should be pretty well off.. You plot once so like evo also pointed out SMRs are the slowest plotting but least expensive I own a few.

    hope you find your niche and start producing some coins

    let us know if you need any help



  • The better your CPU / GPU is the faster you can plot.

    Your PSU just have to handle the CPU/GPU .. external drives use own power or only verry little

    sure you can go external/ internal would recommend go external cause its cheaper and u dont need so many Sata ports 😃

    Profit or not can nobody says that easy cause we dont know how much power your system takes and how much it cost for you



  • @Evo said in 100TB Burst rig questions:

    @Dtrade16, hi there. Kinda surprised your thread sat for so many days without some feedback. I started mining in February, and by April had a 50TB rig. From April to May I made around 50,000 coins. Between May and June, I've mined about 42,000 coins. That was with a larger rig (87.9 TB), but there was a big swelling in network capacity and the difficulty levels shot way up. Also, there is a certain randomness to Burst mining. Some days I'll make next to nothing, then the next day I might forge three blocks and get 600 to 900 coins in historical pool earnings as well. I don't have enough months under my belt to know how it varies strictly due to this randomness.

    There are a lot of variables that go into mining, but here are my thoughts, for what they are worth. You can CPU mine and plot, but GPU mining and plotting should be quicker, and quicker is better. I have one machine with an RX-480 GPU and it is OK, but the other has a GTX-1060 and it works a lot better for me (although some say the NVIDIA cards can be difficult). But the 480 was a lot cheaper and still works well. My advice would be be to use a decent GPU, but one your budget can afford.

    GPU plotting is fast enough that it outpaces the speed at which data can be written to a drive. You can actually have the plotter calculate for several drives at once and write to the drives in parallel.The GPU needs an allotment of RAM for each drive and more RAM for larger stagger sizes as well. For that reason I'd say get all the RAM you can, without getting silly. I have 16GB in my miner and am expanding my plotting rig from 10GB to 16GB or perhaps a bit more.

    Yes, you can mix internal and external drives. I filled up my miner with five x 6TB SATA III, 7200 RPM internals. Everything else is external, all on USB 3.0 connections. USB 2.0 or less is too slow: don't use it!

    The externals can cost less, so you can get more plotted space for less money. Mine are all Seagate 5Tb or 8TB externals, 5400 RPM, and are a kind of drive known as SMR (Shingled Magnetic Recording). This makes the drives cheaper, but VERY slow to plot. Mining speed is fine. I'm not independently wealthy, so cheap, slow plotting drives work for me. I actually plot to faster internal drives and then copy the finished plot files to the SMR drives. These long, continuous writes are much faster than the intermittent plotting writes when it comes to SMR drives.

    Your miner will scan faster with optimized plots. You can plot normal plots and then optimize them or you can directly create optimized plots. I do the latter. I fill my drives as full as I can with plot files and I use multiple files per drive so that the plot files are between 2 to 3 TB each. There is no speed penalty for multiple files versus one large file. I've had the plotting software fail on larger plots, but never on files around 2TB.

    A given USB controller only has so much bandwidth, and all of the drives plugged into it share that bandwidth. The mining software will access the drives in parallel, so things slow down as you add more and more drives. I've got too many on one card right now. When I had four externals, I was reading all my drives in about 15 seconds. With nine, it now takes 20 to 30 seconds. I'm plotting three more, so I'm sure it will just plain crawl with twelve drives.

    The solution is to divide the drives up between multiple USB controllers. I'd like to see no more than four drives per controller. There are PCIEx1 cards that will give you one extra USB controller. There is at least one PCIEx4 card out there with four separate controllers. The key is having the right motherboard with the right expansion slots. Speaking of this, you can also get expansion cards that will give you extra SATA/SAS ports so you can add extra internal drives too. Of course you need enough drive bays and a PSU that can supply the needed power. And, again, you need the right motherboard expansion ports.

    You can also use multiple PCs to mine; all of them looking at one wallet server running on one machine. I haven't done this yet, but it is my next step since my miner is pretty well out of expansion options. There are how-to's out there for implementing this.

    That's it for me right now. I'm crazy tired. I'm afraid to even proof-read what I wrote. Sorry if it rambles on! I'm sure others can provide you more detailed information. The main thing is to dive in and get started. Everything can be upgraded down the road, but even a modest rig can get you earning some coins. Good luck! I'm off to bed...

    Hello,

    Thank you for your detailed and helpful reply. And yes, I didn't think anyone was going to post.

    I have not done much research on the plotting side of things TBH, mostly been looking at hardware and what I would need to get started. I've got an old computer and a couple of drives just laying around, so I think I will start off with those and learn the whole mining process first before diving in further.

    I just wanted to know what I needed in terms of hardware before I did more research. It seems like everyone is going with the external HDDs. What type of motherboard do you recommend? Like, what features should I be looking for? I know USB 3.0 is a must.

    If I decide to go with internal HDDs, do you think it would be a good idea to pick up a server eventually? I think I can get a used one for a decent price. Also, for the internal set up, how many drives can I expand to?

    I was researching these SATA controllers, is this the expansion card that you're referring to? What is the difference between a RAID controller and this expansion card? Are they the same thing? Sorry for the noobness.

    In terms of expansion cards, suppose I got 3 16 port cards, which would allow me to hookup 48 drives, how would I attach all the drives onto the cards? It seems, even if I had the motherboard on a rack, the short sata cables would make it impossible to connect and layout 48 drives properly. Is there some sort of SATA extension cord I would have to purchase or something? Thanks again.



  • @darindarin said in 100TB Burst rig questions:

    @Dtrade16 welcome to burst.. like @Evo said surprised your comment went un answered so long, most things are answered relatively quick .. Evo also did a pretty good job giving you all the information so I will only give you an example.

    I am 4-5 months new to burst.
    started with 2tb and one machine.now this machine is plotting over 40tb with a mix of internals and externals (mostly externals)
    I also started another machine with 8 x 8tb wd externals plotted to 59TB

    I have never once used my GPU as the CPU is what drew me to this coin.

    My bigger machine can do from 300 - 3500 burst a day my smaller machine will do 150-2500 burst a day ... i know the the swings are very big due to spiking and unstable network difficulty..

    the calculator is a great way to determine long results. as you will see swings and will not produce what you think some days and way better others..

    I would start with the 20tb and see how you do .. as long as your read speeds are under 60 seconds you should be pretty well off.. You plot once so like evo also pointed out SMRs are the slowest plotting but least expensive I own a few.

    hope you find your niche and start producing some coins

    let us know if you need any help

    Hello,

    Thank you for having me. This is a great community and an interesting project. I've heard people using their CPU to mine as well so I may start off with that first and see how it goes.

    I broke my CPU cooler and I'm in the process of getting a new one. As soon as I do, I will get this loner desktop up and running and get a better understanding of everything.

    After I do that, I will start to build out a real miner.

    Thanks for the help and I'll be sure to post updates on my build.


  • admin

    @Dtrade16 Unlike a lot of others, I've gone the internal route - no USB drives, all internal. The chassis I have, and the one that's on it's way are both 24 Bay server chassis, with server based MoBo's. I use 24 Port SAS controllers to drive the internal drives, Xeon processors, and as much RAM as I can throw into them. These chassis are capable of an easy 192TB per case, and can then be expanded by external SAS chassis that hold up to 45 drives, and additional 360TB.

    With it all internal I don't have to worry about dealing with all the external usb cables, drives, power supplies - it's just plug and go.



  • Chassis are the best. Plus you can just buy the cheap as externals rip them open and put em in the case.


  • admin

    @manfromafar Or find an eBay seller willing to sell you bulk new drives at a great price ...... 😉



  • @Savaged.Million said in 100TB Burst rig questions:

    The better your CPU / GPU is the faster you can plot.

    Your PSU just have to handle the CPU/GPU .. external drives use own power or only verry little

    sure you can go external/ internal would recommend go external cause its cheaper and u dont need so many Sata ports 😃

    Profit or not can nobody says that easy cause we dont know how much power your system takes and how much it cost for you

    Ok great, I will keep that in mind. Thank you.



  • @haitch "new"



  • @haitch said in 100TB Burst rig questions:

    @Dtrade16 Unlike a lot of others, I've gone the internal route - no USB drives, all internal. The chassis I have, and the one that's on it's way are both 24 Bay server chassis, with server based MoBo's. I use 24 Port SAS controllers to drive the internal drives, Xeon processors, and as much RAM as I can throw into them. These chassis are capable of an easy 192TB per case, and can then be expanded by external SAS chassis that hold up to 45 drives, and additional 360TB.

    With it all internal I don't have to worry about dealing with all the external usb cables, drives, power supplies - it's just plug and go.

    Wow, that's awesome. Do you use any special type of network card or PSU?


  • admin

    @manfromafar If they're not new, bitch to eBay .....

    @Dtrade16 Motherboard NIC, and proprietary Power supplies with the chassis. Current rig has dual/redundant 800W PSU's.



  • Just a example if you not buying "gaming" hardware most enterprise lvl equipment is pretty cheap on ebay since companies just get ride of the hardware

    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Supermicro-X9DRH-IF-4U-36-Bay-6Gbps-SAS2-LSI-FREENAS-JBOD-Storage-2x-Xeon-8-core-/142417183832?


  • admin

    @manfromafar

    PennyWise2

    CPUs * 4

    Memory

    Controller

    Drives (just not at that price .... )



  • @haitch Nice except the controller. Megaraid and ZFS don't mix. If I had the 12GB backplanes I would get some LSI SAS9311 and reflash to IT mode for hdd passthrough



  • @Dtrade16 said in 100TB Burst rig questions:

    This is a great community and an interesting project. I've heard people using their CPU to mine as well so I may start off with that first and see how it goes.
    I broke my CPU cooler and I'm in the process of getting a new one. As soon as I do, I will get this loner desktop up and running and get a better understanding of everything.

    Ya, this is a good idea. Get a feel for the different tools used in plotting and see how it goes. From there, you'll be in a much better state for building an actual hdd rig.

    Personally, I prefer optimized drives (meaning the stagger is the same size as the plot, increases read speeds). The cpu plotter creates these automatically. The gpu plotter unfortunately doesn't, so you would need to run a second long-running program to optimize them. For this reason alone, I prefer to let my gpus do altcoin mining and I just plot with my i7-5930k.


  • admin

    @manfromafar This one isn't going to be ZFS - DAS. It's one of my other miners I'm looking at converting back to ZFS.



  • @IncludeBeer said in 100TB Burst rig questions:

    @Dtrade16 said in 100TB Burst rig questions:

    This is a great community and an interesting project. I've heard people using their CPU to mine as well so I may start off with that first and see how it goes.
    I broke my CPU cooler and I'm in the process of getting a new one. As soon as I do, I will get this loner desktop up and running and get a better understanding of everything.

    Ya, this is a good idea. Get a feel for the different tools used in plotting and see how it goes. From there, you'll be in a much better state for building an actual hdd rig.

    Personally, I prefer optimized drives (meaning the stagger is the same size as the plot, increases read speeds). The cpu plotter creates these automatically. The gpu plotter unfortunately doesn't, so you would need to run a second long-running program to optimize them. For this reason alone, I prefer to let my gpus do altcoin mining and I just plot with my i7-5930k.

    @IncludeBeer, actually the gpu plotter can create optimized plots. It's as simple as using the "direct" command:

    non-optimized: gpuPlotGenerator generate buffer {drive}:{plot file name}
    optimized: gpuPlotGenerator generate direct {drive}:{plot file name}

    In direct mode it will make two passes; one to generate the file and a second to optimize.



  • @haitch said in 100TB Burst rig questions:

    @manfromafar

    PennyWise2

    CPUs * 4

    Memory

    Controller

    Drives (just not at that price .... )

    @haitch, actually, for what your getting, the prices are pretty good. I got into Burst with the home PC I had and it's just kinda grownto occupy an entire corner of a spare bedroom. I'm not so keen on the tangle of power supplies, USB cables and power strips, not to mention the fact that the nice PC I had for general use is pretty much tied up with my mining. Still, it's been a good way to get my feet wet and learn the basics.

    I'm at the point where a second machine is a necessity if I want to grow, and after looking at your posts (thank you), I think I may elect to go the self contained chassis route. I can't imagine doubling the number of external drives I have have strewn about! More importantly, I'm pretty sure Mrs. Evo would not be happy and that I would be violating the happy wife, happy life principle.

    My fear is that I know absolutely nothing about the server level hardware and what works with what. I'd hate to get a "good buy", only to find out it is incompatible with some other parts I purchased. How much "advanced knowledge" is need to get one of these puppies up and running, or is it really more cookie-cutter and less rocket science than I am imagining? Any good "Resurrecting 24-bay server hardware for Burst mining for dummies" tutorials out there?