Some idea for getting more attractiv for real world businesses: BURST software with a simpel ability to get the math for Profit and the math for FIFO
BurnMe last edited by BurnMe
I think Burst is one of the best projects but its unknown by normal business people now.
I don't know if Burst can win a big fish (f.e. like amazon) to use burstcoin as payment but I think it can be done more attractive for smaller business people who are a bit tech addicted.
I am using cryptos for some time now and one of the most annoying things is to to do math for the tax. For each transaction you have to do a lot of math. First you have to get price of Burstcoin for the income date then if you sell or buy something with your burstcoin you have to get the price of Burstcoin of the outgoing Burstcoin at that date. Then you have to do the math for the win.
For example, for a little cigarette shop or whatever:
"Someone buys 1 package of cigarettes in your shop for 1000 BURST:
Then you have to do the math as the shop owner
Income 1000 BURT 01.06.2018 = 10 USD (f.e.)
Outcome 1000 BURST 15.06.2018 = 15 USD (f.e.)
You got an income of 10 USD for the 1 package of cigarettes. Then you sell the 1000 BURST on Poloniex or you are paying something direct with burst on 15.06. On that day 1000 burst is 15 USD. Therefore you won 5 USD (15-10) because the value of burst goes high.
On a business you've then to make following writings to your book:
- 10 Doller for the 1000 BURST income on 01.06.2018
- 5 Doller for the winning of 5 Doller of higher price for burstcoin on 15.06.2018
- If you buy something (on 15.06) for your company you could write the 15 USD to running costs of your business.
- And if you want to you write the transactions fees for the transaction (on 15.06) to your running costs of your business too.
This is one Transaction and now think of what you have to do 1000 transactions as a professional.
For those there is a solution on cointracking.info. That makes exactly the math you need. And this is done for nearly all cryptos. You can use FIFO method or others and you can see the profit and income.
For cryptoaddicted people cointracking is realy best and easy to use esspecially for cryptotrades its realy brilliant.
But for the normal people out there with their job and their family and lack of time it's not. I think they will never want to such complicated thing.
For a normal non tech and non crypto addicted guy it has to be very simple. In best case an All in One solution Sofware / Wallet in that way:
- Downloading software / Wallet
- Activating BURST Account
- Getting payments on BURST Account
(this can be actually done bute my idea is the step 4.)
- Software / Wallet can automatically tell the Income, the outcome and the winnings of value rising of BURST (FIFO = First in First out).
It should more simple as using cointracking.info cause its only for burst.
The Wallet / Software should display the Income in USD at the specific incoming date. The value of BURST at the specific outgoing date. And should do the math for trade winnings with FIFO method.
If i would have a small cigarette shop. And selling 1000 Packages in one year actually i would have 4000 writings in my book. And if you did 1 error on those 4000 writings the whole math is wrong when you did the error on the first one. And it's nearly impossible to find the error on that 4000. In that case for me as a small non tech and non crypto addicted shop owner it would be to complicate to do the math and i would not going to accept burst as payment option.
So in the explorer the value of Burst is shown is USD or EUR but its always the actual one of that day you are looking at.
For mass adoption it has to be simple as hell and in best case without any costs to accept burstcoin as payment.
And in best case does the Wallet or a specific software do the math for the shop owner automatic and free.
Especially for small shops it would be a good benefit. No other Crypto has actually the math build in a software.
This feature would be for small shop owner more attractiv than anything else. They don't care about electricity or anything else what we are thinking in our crypto bubble.
A small shop owner want easy get the money and easy do the math (Thats only my Opinion) and then they are thinking of all the cool features of Burstcoin and PoC.
I am no developer. Would it be possible to do a software with exactly that math for burstcoin as a decentral solution and feature of burstcoin ?
If not perhaps it would be possible to do some crossover with cointracking.info. They already have all prices for burst in their databases, it should be possible to read the transactions over the blockchain for a specfic burst adress and then automatically do the math.
And if this software would cost some money or is using a small fee it would be ok. Personally i think this feature can be a key changer.
Of course you can say then the shop owner should use contracking.info. But it has to be simple as hell and automatic and cointracking is not that simple and there is a lot of work for the shop owner.
So let me know your opinion:
- Good idea ? I think so :)
- Can it be done from a developer view as a build in feature of burstcoin ? Dedicated Software ?
Personally i cannot write code or something like that but I know my personal disadvantage of real world using cryptocoins. It's the f... math (for me). Everytime i am using cryptocoins i have to do all the creepy math. When buying or selling in FIAT I have nothing to do. I know the FIAT income and know the outcome and here we are. On cryptocoins i have to search for price at income and outcome..... . So i think for all other people its the same creepy thing so why should they use cryptocoins.
It would be nice to know how DASH is solving that math problem cause they want to be a coin for everyday use. I think nobody wants to make that complicated math every day.
taxcollector last edited by
Sorry... I am amazed at this conversation... in that Burst-Coin is NOT money. And so why are you paying any kind of tax on it. If you want to convert it into money of some kind... and use that to make income... then you may realize a taxable liability (if you are a taxpayer). But as long as it stays in Burst or any other coin (Burst or any other coin is Hypothetical value, which value is not realized until it is converted into money.) essentially is impossible to make a profit... such as with actual money. "You can only make a profit if dealing with money" or $, "which money, doesn't belong to you even if you think it does" it doesn't, that's why you pay a tax to use it. You should check into this. Read the definition section in the IRS Code book. Specifically... the "IRS code" specifically defines what money is... and Credits of any kind is NOT money. I happen to be in the know about this from being involved in several Supreme Court Cases that won on this issue. It is the people who are ignorant what money is who penalize themselves, and others. As no government will refuse your contribution to their coffers even if you don't owe it. Don't promulgate that Burst or any other coin is money in any way and cause people to think it is. You create the wrong impression, and spread gossip that is BS.
@burnme Second thought... when you are thinking of the word "profit" know this... that the IRS Code specifically defines this word differently than it is used in a lay persons dictionary. With regards to commerce... you can only make a profit if you are using legal tender, i.e., $. And because the $ are owned by the FED... you have to pay a tax to do commerce with it. Not specifically to use it... rather only to do commerce with it.
This is why people use Crypto currency... is because NO GOVERNMENT owns the currency... and because its value is indeterminable. This means... as long as the value stays in Crypto currency... its user can never have a taxable liability.
- Because you are not doing commerce with money... and...
- Doing any transactions with Crypto Currency is the same as bartering. There is no tax liability on an equal exchange of something... ever... because, there is no profit or gain. Profit being defined as money gained on a transaction when while using "money" belonging to the FED in this case. (this is the essence). No profit... no tax. It doesn't matter how much gain you make in credits using Crypto Coins... it is NOT profit. Because Credits is NOT money! Crypto currency is nothing more than a fancy way of accounting... keeping track of tick's in a computer.
If a group of people get together and decide that those computer ticks have value... its value is based on confidence. Same as FIAT currency. But ticks... is in NO way to be construed as FIAT Currency or Money, unless you are simply ignorant, or stubborn and want to contribute your share to the taxing authority.
Sorry if this is long winded... its a difficult subject to explain intelligently.
@leslieallen I have heard that the Governments of the world want to start using their own Crypto Currency... which in fact if they do... then the crypto currency that they create... "being the creator" and the rule maker for is use... can, and likely will make rules for its use which will involve paying some sort of tribute for its use.
Don't misconstrue Government Issued Crypto Currency for Privately Issued or Created Crypto Currency. They are both different animals all together. And the difference comes down to ownership and creation of the currency... whether it is FIAT Paper Currency... or Crypto Currency created with an computer algorithm is the same.
Learn to understand "Ownership". And you will understand the Right to access a tribute for use of the asset, what ever it is.
@leslieallen This is getting long...
Additionally... It comes down to belief... If you belive that you have an obligation to pay a portion of your earnings... what ever it is, then in fact you do have that obligation. It is "you personally" who assigns that obligation. If that obligation is based on ignorance, stupidly, or gossip... doesn't matter.... you are obligated to do what your conscience says. If there were ever a conviction for a crime of evasion of a tribute or tax... your belief would be the primary thing that would convict you.
On the other hand... if you believed that you have the moral right and obligation to control your property...and conserve your assets for what ever your reasons...and you know or believe that using Crypto Currency IS NOT taxable... again... it will be your belief that will SAVE you from such abuse of power of taxation. The legal device that is always used in cases of this kind... is "willful" failure to do something that... you "knew" you had an obligation to do. And "willfulness" has to do with "belief" specifically and entirely. So... accurate knowledge is key to protecting yourself from unlawful prosecution or abuse by taxing authorities. This idea has been upheld in the Supreme Court many times... and so "willfulness, i.e., belief" is always the nexus or crux of whether a crime was committed.
BurnMe last edited by
So my text was a bit long some examples for you what i think of:
If you are Mining then you have income and to pay tax and set the cost of Hardware as running cost
If you were selling something with your onlineshop and you have income and to pay tax.
if you are making some tradings and get some winning you have income and have to pay the tax
if you are selling something in privat you probably don't have to pay tax but you have to do the math
If you are selling as an progessional online shop you have income and pay the tax.
So on every case you have to do the math to get the right tax paying.
And one more Case:
If you have your business only with burst without changing to FIAT you event then have to declare you earnings.
Paying tax is no stupidity it's for the relaxed people you don't want to be living in anxious from the tax office
I try to say it most simple as i can: I want an Solo App only for Burstcoin that automatically does the Burst Calculation what you can do with cointracking.info.
My Vision is you need only to set your BURST Adress to this APP and the APP is calculating your income and outcome in your FIAT for everytime.
Don't know the US rules but income is income and when you are getting paid in burst or any other cryptcurrency you have to make the math.
F.e. I am selling 100 books each 100 BURST. Then i have an income of 100 x 100 = 10000 BURST and then you would have to pay tax for that.
Of course you can say whatever catch me if you can and go all in don't pay any tax and then the suprise when someone wants to know some data for income.
@burnme I understand very well what you talk about. And i agree that a application doing the math you need would be helpful in your case ... but thats nothing to build in wallet. The walllet provides a interface for such kind of 3rd party apps, delivering all information needed. (http://localhost:8125/test)
In your case you should maybe define exactly what you need and find a developer programming it for you, if you just have to handle one country tax law and you have access to burst price in your tax currency by transaction timestamp ... it is not that big deal to plot out a excel sheet for a specific burst account. Writing a general app that fits the need of all and all special cases is much harder.
The whole aspect you describe will be a big issue in the future ... tax and crypto just don't work together very well, as crypto is not bound to identity like fiat ... a lot of current laws just don't work with crypto. It is quite amusing, if i pass a border, i may only take a given amount of cash with me. But considering that crypto is cash, and i have my 'private keys' with me, i break the law, every time i cross a border. I have accepted that i'm a money launderer and terrorist for the authorities ... hope you find a way to not get criminalized by reporting every single crypto transaction with all related data, like timestamp, exchange price in fiat, source/recipient ID etc. ;-)
BurnMe last edited by
ok you know what i am talking about.
The APP is not for me. I do my math on my own and its working fine for me. My own math is simple and I don't need any burst APP.
My idea is that the APP should make burst more attractiv for professional sellers and webshops.
I think for non tech and non tax addicted "normal" people it should be simple as hell in best case a one click solution.
The goal is to have small simple APP for Burst.
And i would pay some burst and perhaps the community can give a lot more to the developer for this app.